Breeding

[stalk]

I have no clue how many of you can be breeders. To me it is almost impossible for me to emotionally detach myself.

Light and Dark were not spayed/neutered until they were about 6 years old. This was done for many reasons, but breeding was not one of them. When the time came to spay Light, my mentor asked me for the first time if I wanted to breed her.

Part of the reason is because Dark and Light's mother died a year after she gave birth to them, and he wanted to have another litter from her. Both Dark and Light come from sledding championship lines, and their mother was a very prized dog. Light and Dark were the last ones of this line that still could pass on their genes.

I was tempted to - he wanted a male and female from the litter. And I could do as I wished for the rest. He would pay for half of the costs. Dark's genes were too far out of the standard, not in a bad way, just not the norm. He was too big and his temperament was too extreme. Light was too reserved, but the genes were still inside her. So if nothing else, no bad genes would be passed on.

After I thought about it for a long time (6 months or so) I decided against it. I could not give the babies up. I've hand reared a litter of seven baby huskies, and it was very very hard. Training seven at the same time.... can you imagine the housebreaking?

And the cost was insane. The shots, health checkups, spay and neuters (I was fostering them for a rescue), and many other small stuff. Leashes, collars, time. They did not leave my care until about 6 months old and were trained. This time was #$!#$!#$!#$!. I got NO sleep at all. My girlfriend at the time was big help, so were my parents to a lesser extent. And when the time came for them to leave... I had the hardest time doing it.

If I lived on my own at the time, I probably would have been stupid and did it. My parents owned the house, so they forced me to give them up and let them be adopted out. I'm not suited for fostering... I'm far too strict about who I adopt to.

But Light's babies? I had hard enough time giving up some other dog's babies, I could never have given up Light's. The same would go for my snakes.. it's the babies of a pet I've sworn to take care of, how could I possibly sell them or even give them away?

I see a lot of reptile keepers just deciding to get into breeding. It always makes me a little sad. Given the frequency and numbers most snakes breed at, it's so easy to see a huge overpopulation of them. There are some good breeders, but many times I just sit back and wonder... do we really need more? Is it really something one should do?

Another part of me wonders if there should be some kind of standard.. but it really couldn't be enforced, I suppose. Reptile keeping is expanding and evolving in so many ways, where are the lines drawn? What, then, is ethical breeding and not ethical? Ethical breeding is the aspiration to better what you are attempting to breed, is that truly what is happening?

There are people that I can clearly see doing so, such as Gus from RioBravoReptiles. His attempts at keeping the various bloodlines pure are of very worthy note. But I always have to wonder, what are some breeders trying to accomplish? Is there a goal, or is the goal simply pretty boas?

Just trying to create reptiles, to me, is the same as poor backyard breeding practices. My mentor spends tens of thousands of dollars taking care of his 80 Huskies, all 80 of them are promised to someone in event he dies, two of which are going to come into my care. His goal has, and always is, to create the ultimate working Siberian. A perfect mind, a perfect body, temperament that works. His dogs are AKC registered, but ONLY because it makes it easier to adopt out the "pet quality" dogs (two working dogs bred together, sometimes one or two in the litter don't have the proper physique or mentality for work. Light didn't have proper mentality for it, she's too dependent on her pack for individual drive.)

He has two kennel hands that work year round exercising the dogs, cleaning up after them. He trains them 6 months a year, and has another professional sledder help him train. Most of the litters he's had in his life had a championship sled dog or two. He boasts having raised seven champion lead dogs in his lifetime. That is a achievement that speaks a thousand time more than a AKC show champion dog.

I see a lot of specific goals trying to be achieved, such as duplicating patterns and so on. Laddertails, that type of thing. I can understand that, but many times I see a pairing and wonder to myself, just why are those two worth breeding? Without a doubt, they are beautiful. But why are they worth breeding? There are MANY beautiful snakes in this world. Without a specific goal trying to be accomplished, just what repercussions will result?

I know I'm comparing dogs to snakes, not a very valid comparision, but today I was in a very big fight with someone who adopted a puppy with a neuter contract from the rescue and told us she will not honor the contract, because she feels it's a beautiful puppy and she should be allowed to breed. It never fails to stun me how ignorant so many people are. It doesn't matter if the resulting puppies have homes lined up already, or if the shelters are overcrowded. Disregarding all that, there's nothing special breed-wise about it other than that it's a nice dog. And that's not a bad thing at all... a more standard siberian is not a better dog than it, it's just has better genetics, health, a more well-known history, and so on.

We're going to have to start doing something to take the puppy away form her. Unless she honors her contract.

Ah, I'm just rambling.

[trendkill]

In a perfect world, you'd be right. No doubt. But then re-evaluate everything you just argued "for", and especially the idea of "Ethical breeding is the aspiration to better what you are attempting to breed", because really, in a perfect world, would that make any sense at all when you look at the big picture? Is breeding any animal (be it reptile or dog) for any reason that is useful, helpful, and/or appealing to humans right? Are pure bred dogs any different AT ALL than morph reptiles? And aren't mother nature and evolution the only "ones" who can truly better any animal?

But I agree.. if you applied certain standard practices and limits to reptile breeding, like reputable pure bred dog breeders and kennel clubs do, that would be a good thing. I'd argue for that. Some sort of standard, though like you said, that would be difficult.. a limit to the number of litters a breeder can produce each year, proper record keeping requirements, registries, etc. I'd be all for those things. Unfortunately this hobby is well, just a hobby to many, and not taken as seriously.

[stalk]

Originally Posted by trendkill

In a perfect world, you'd be right. No doubt. But then re-evaluate everything you just argued "for", and especially the idea of "Ethical breeding is the aspiration to better what you are attempting to breed", because really, in a perfect world, would that make any sense at all when you look at the big picture? Is breeding any animal (be it reptile or dog) for any reason that is useful, helpful, and/or appealing to humans right? Are pure bred dogs any different AT ALL than morph reptiles? And aren't mother nature and evolution the only "ones" who can truly better any animal?

But I agree.. if you applied certain standard practices and limits to reptile breeding, like reputable pure bred dog breeders and kennel clubs do, that would be a good thing. I'd argue for that. Some sort of standard, though like you said, that would be difficult.. a limit to the number of litters a breeder can produce each year, proper record keeping requirements, registries, etc. I'd be all for those things. Unfortunately this hobby is well, just a hobby to many, and not taken as seriously.

I don't deny that, in the grand scheme of things, we have no right to force animals to be our companions, which is what we are essentially doing. What happened to create purebred dogs, the inbreeding and such, was not a good thing. Much like morphs. However, these breeds now exist, and the practices which came to their creation no longer exist. I know I am saying this in the sense of "the end justifies the means" but it is what the modern reality is.

For instance, the terrible breeding practice that is going on to make these "designer dogs" right now. Given enough time, some of them just might become purebreds. In my opinion though, it is a practice that must be stopped at all costs. The damage we have done is great enough, we can't allow it to get worse.

Reptile industry is, in my novice eye, nearly all at that beginning. Morphs being discovered, terrible breeding practices, overbreeding of standard localities, and so on. A few shine through this. Albino boas, for instance, is a genetic defect. Lots of inbreeding went into the creation of it, and that should not have been allowed. But there are enough albinos right now that inbreeding does not need to occur, so you could say in a very roundabout sense, albinos are now it's own group.

However, these "morphs" and such are not quite the concern. Of current established animals, and we will use, for instance, Peruvian boas. Peruvian boas are a established locality, and most of them are beautiful. But what makes a Peruvian boa breedable? Good health? Granted, that's far harder to tell than with mammals. Looks? Was this Peruvian boa chosen to breed with the other peruvian boa for a reason? Perhaps it was to make it "cleaner". Or a specific tail color, length, and so on. Like Monster Tails (a favorite of mine, by the way).

I just find it disconcerting when a lot of people say "I am breeding this snake with that snake" and there's no apparent reason why. It seems like it's only because they are both beautiful. And that's what a lot of good breeders do, most bad breeders don't even care if they are beautiful, they breed just because they can.

For instance, Suriname boas. Many people attempt to keep the widow peaks on them because it's their renown characteristic. That would, for instance, be a standard. However in interest of improving the standard, what else? More Golden colors? Pink colors? Is that what's being tried to pass on?

But I suppose it's as you say. I'm dreaming of a perfect world. It is unfortunate to just stand by and watch the reptile industry go down the path that the dog world went. I would have hoped we learned from our errors, but history repeats itself over and over. That's what history class teaches us all. It's just all very sad.

	Boa Constrictor Constrictor