Wish I knew what I was doing.

[Texas Rattlesnake]

Raze.....shame on anyone for bashing you on your set up! I love looking at photos of set-ups like yours.

As long as your set-up meets the needs of your animal, then do what works best for you and that animal. But, on the other hand, don't pass judgment on the folks that use racks either. There are real benefits of using a rack system. When I say benefits, I'm refering to benefits to the animal.

We use racks for all of our young boas. The temps in the racks are controlled by a helix, and provide a night drop. I have used the naturalistic, big cage set-up as well. In my opinion, you can't controll, temps, gradient and humidity as well as you can in a rack. Rocks, in the cages? A must for a natural type set-up. In a rack? Not necessary. Perfect sheds every time, without rocks or misting.

We use aspen, a small water bowl and hides (if necessary) in the tubs in our racks and larger cages. These items, along with precise temps and gradients, meet the needs of our animals. Further, the privacy of a tub in a rack, reduces stress on a young boa. I believe the animals feel more secure in a rack than in an open cage environment. You see the benefits of a rack system when you have 30 well behaved boas that haven't bitten anyone, ever. You also see the benefits of that when the animals have a strong feeding response. They are not scared to go after food. In other words, the privacy of a tub in a rack reduces stress from captivity.

Ryan Homsey was at our house yesterday visitng with our animals, taking photos, etc. He was amazed at how docile they were in the hot sun, and the yard. He asked if they had a good feeding response even though they were so mellow. The answer is heck yeah. They are killers at dinner time.

With a nice backyard, and plenty of kids, exercise isn't an issue for the animals in our COLLECTION either.

My point in all of this is that I have made the choice to keep things simple with our animals by using racks, tubs and boaphile type cages with basic furnishings. That's my personal choice, and preference and I believe (as do most that visit) that we are providing rock solid care for our animals.

In sum, it is wrong to pass judgment on those who take a little more time like Raze and Brandon to do up their cages. If they are getting it right inside the cage with their temps, humidity and gradient, then GREAT JOB! On the other hand, it is equally as wrong to pass judgment on the rack people, by suggesting that we do not care for our animals as much as you do, or that that the system is not as good as yours. You couldn't be more wrong about something if that is how you feel.

Personal experience is the key to knowledge.

[trendkill]

Well put Adrian.

I use BOTH types of set ups. Some of my boas and all of my carpet pythons have elaborate, well decorated cages. Logs, fake plants and tree trunks, branches (for the carpets.. none of my boas ever seem to use them), etc. And some boas are kept in basic rubbermaid set ups (though I use taller tubs than most people) or in AP cages.. with a waterdish, hide and bedding.

All the animals are happy and healthy. I see no difference in behavior or health between the animals in fancy cages and those in the rubbermaids.. but that's because I make sure everything is perfect. Tanks and custom cages are difficult to maintain.. and I applaud those who can do it correctly. All too often people don't get the humidity or temperatures right. My friend's sister's boyfriend has a boa that "was acting funny and pooping all the time". So I went to check it out, and the cage was very nice.. humid and well kept. But though the cheap stick-on thermometer read that the warm side was at 85 degrees, the hot spot under the lamp actually read at 108 degrees with a temp gun! The cool end was reading at 68 degrees.. so the boa chose to stay in the warm end all the time, cooking itself. It was acting stressed out, nervous, and was overly tense (a boa that was calm and easy going when it was bought).. and pooping liquidy feces at an alarming rate. Hopefully no neurological damage was done.

It's impossible to understand exactly why boas who have the instinct of thermoregulation don't always thermoregulate.. but it happens often. Like having a heat rock in the cage that can reach temps of 115+ degrees. Though the animal can choose not to sit on it, it still does and burns itself. I always say that puting a heat rock (or a big heat lamp without a reliable thermometer) in a cage is like putting an open bottle of bleach in a toddler's room and hoping he's smart enough not to drink it. It's vital to have everything set up to maintain perfect temps in a tank.

	Animal Plastics

[razeraze]

Thank you everyone.
If a reptile is staying in a hot spot odds are the rest of the cage lacks hides. I have a spot that is 115F in the cage and charger only uses it after a huge meal and only for short periods of time.

If I was a reptile breeder I would have to make everything cost efficient. Since I am not I keep costs down buy adopting less animals. Thanks again everyone, I get very tired of the Terrestrial, basic, your anthropomorphising guidelines. I can tell you when a large set up is done correctly you will get more natural behaviors, climbing, soaking, exploring, hunting, etc...

[angelboa]

We have 4 foot long by 1 foot wide by 2 foot tall cages for our boas right now and they woork well we have unused cat litter boxes for water that they can fit there whole body in, a log to rub on, and use boxes for a hide spot for them and they both move around alot and are very tame so I think that it all depends on how much you handle them, what your snake seems happest with, is it the best you can provide for your snake and will it keep them in the best health? Your set up looks great I hope we can get good set ups like that for our snakes soon.

[ssjsmits]

just out of curiosity to Trend and Texas R (who's name shall remain confindential ) how do you go about heating tubs or racks? Is it possible to achieve proper air temps with a uth only? That's always something that I have been unclear on is how many people successful raise boids on uth alone. My only logical guess is if a uth is only used for heat, then the ambient room temp but be around 80 +/-

I think part of the reason why I have had so much success with my cages/boas is that they are in a room by themselves. The only traffic that goes by is me now in then to check in on temps. But for the most part they are left alone.
These two cages are completely different. The vision has a lot of greenery, hides, branches to aid in security, shedding etc, and the wooden enclosure is very plain and basic. I think it's an effective cage because she's a bigger snake and with less clutter, she can have a little more variety on when she chooses to stay. The vision has multiple areas of hiding, but the little peru boa rarely uses them. And I think that may have something to do with the less traffic, who knows really. (crap, photbucket is down at the moment. I'll have to post the pics later )


Plus, if you make a cage correctly, temps/ humidity are quite easy to achieve.
The cage alone is air tight, other than the adjustable vents. Which come in quite handy.

I guess my point is similar to others, it's not a matter of how you choose to care for your pet, it's a matter of care given. And the one thing that I have learned over the last several years is that there is more than one way to succesfully care for a snake.

	Under Tank Heater Under Tank Heater: A commonly used method of heating a reptile enclosure.

[razeraze]

As I have said on other sites, keeping monitors has really helped me appreciate the natural environment. Now instead of reading care sheets or keeper books I try to buy books on their natural habitat. I even question the basic knowledge like is a retic nocturnal or diurnal. A gentleman who has them living (wild) in his backyard told me they are active during both. Though they hunt mostly at night they are often seen in his yard during the day. To me these animals evolved to live in specific places and because they can survive in simplicity does not mean we should not strive to mimic their natural habitat. I received my temps and humidity info from their habitat not the breeder I bought her from.

[Texas Rattlesnake]

Originally Posted by ssjsmits

just out of curiosity to Trend and Texas R (who's name shall remain confindential ) how do you go about heating tubs or racks? Is it possible to achieve proper air temps with a uth only? That's always something that I have been unclear on is how many people successful raise boids on uth alone. My only logical guess is if a uth is only used for heat, then the ambient room temp but be around 80 +/-

I think part of the reason why I have had so much success with my cages/boas is that they are in a room by themselves. The only traffic that goes by is me now in then to check in on temps. But for the most part they are left alone.
These two cages are completely different. The vision has a lot of greenery, hides, branches to aid in security, shedding etc, and the wooden enclosure is very plain and basic. I think it's an effective cage because she's a bigger snake and with less clutter, she can have a little more variety on when she chooses to stay. The vision has multiple areas of hiding, but the little peru boa rarely uses them. And I think that may have something to do with the less traffic, who knows really. (crap, photbucket is down at the moment. I'll have to post the pics later )


Plus, if you make a cage correctly, temps/ humidity are quite easy to achieve.
The cage alone is air tight, other than the adjustable vents. Which come in quite handy.

I guess my point is similar to others, it's not a matter of how you choose to care for your pet, it's a matter of care given. And the one thing that I have learned over the last several years is that there is more than one way to succesfully care for a snake.

Controlling ambient temps in the room is an added benefit. We too keep ours in a seperate room in the house. It is actually a very small basement. In the summer, our ambient temp in the room is around 78/80 degrees. In the winter, low to mid 70s with the help of a space heater on cold days.

	Under Tank Heater Under Tank Heater: A commonly used method of heating a reptile enclosure.

[ssjsmits]

perhaps one of these days you might show me what your set up looks like with the tubs......you know, just for fun

[Texas Rattlesnake]

Originally Posted by razeraze

I can tell you when a large set up is done correctly you will get more natural behaviors, climbing, exploring, hunting, etc...

Very beneficial, indeed.