Chinese too young

[Botis]

Not sure how much you guys (and by guys I mean anyone using the "US got spanked by a little girl line") know about gymnastics, but the younger you are the greater flexibility your body has. Someone who is 13 or 14 has a much high threshhold for flexibility then a 16 or 17 year old. Its just human anatomy. Its a part of the reasoning behind the age limit. That and those pesky little child labor and safety laws... who needs safe kids right?

China doesn't.

There also lighter, those girls are around 4' 6" and no more then 85 lbs. I bet.

China BRED those girls, they don't know anything other than gymnastics.
Problem is they just weren't quite old enough when the time rolled around for China to show off their pure-bred gymnastic ponies.

China's pride is that huge. The gymnastics are much more then a athletic competition, there a political stage. This is Chinas chance to show the entire world that their One Party system of democracy DOES work. This may sound ridiculous, but its the way things work.

#$!#$!#$!#$!, they wouldnt even let the real singer of their national anthem sing in person because she "Didnt have the proper spirit, body, and mind" lol.

[danktat]

they wouldnt even let the real singer of their national anthem sing in person because she "Didnt have the proper spirit, body, and mind" lol.

The news said it was her "teeth"

Not sure how much you guys (and by guys I mean anyone using the "US got spanked by a little girl line") know about gymnastics, but the younger you are the greater flexibility your body has. Someone who is 13 or 14 has a much high threshhold for flexibility then a 16 or 17 year old. Its just human anatomy. Its a part of the reasoning behind the age limit.

The same appies in martial arts. The difference is the experience. The older ones are stronger and have more technique. There are advantages and disadvantages both ways.

China BRED those girls, they don't know anything other than gymnastics.
Problem is they just weren't quite old enough when the time rolled around for China to show off their pure-bred gymnastic ponies.

China's pride is that huge. The gymnastics are much more then a athletic competition, there a political stage. This is Chinas chance to show the entire world that their One Party system of democracy DOES work. This may sound ridiculous, but its the way things work.

That has always been the case. Russia was notorious for that as was Germany and guess who THE UNITED STATES. Still comes to sending your BEST athletes as far as I am concerned. If your best athlete is 12 send em. If they are 33 (like Germany's silver medalist) send em. You can't be more "fair" than everyone sending their best athletes and going head to head IMO. The politics will fall where they may.

	IMO In My Opinion

[bleeding_sarcasm]

If I remember correctly, I know that people in china are counted as 1 as soon as they are born, instead of in most places where you start at basically "zero" from birth, and are 1, 1 year after that. I believe they start counting from conception, so your first "year" is in utero. Dont quote me on that, it was in a book I read a long time ago. A girl transfered schools, and she was put in the wrong grade because her "age" was the same age as the other children, but it was not correct/accurate.

I may sound like a hippie, but I havent watched the Olympics at all this year, I am boycotting them, specifically China, but that is also for another thread

[Botis]

Were not talking about martial arts here, were talking about gymnastics.

There is a HUGE difference between a 40 year old martial artist and a 12 year old gymnist lol.

Despite your opinions the facts stand. There is a reason the age limit is 16 and up. Most children's bones are NOT fully mature until that age, and they could have suffered greivous wounds. While they did not get wounded, they still broke international LAW.

Your opinion of the age law is null and void. Hundreds of men and women from countries around the world made this standard, not me. Im just laying the facts out.

Saying its ok to ignore that age limit and let the 12-14 year old girl compete in a 16+ year old competition is equivalent to bringing your 15 year old son into a bar and declaring hes old enough to drink, because the 21+ law is stupid in your eyes.

[danktat]

Not really the same thing. That is a law not a rule. Also it is a law that only applies here in the United States. Other countries aren't nearly so anal about it.

As far as sports and children go, Jennifer Capriati turned pro at 13 and was deep into wimbeldon and the austrailian at age 14. All sports have thier rigors. I am sure that practice is just as intense at 13 as it is at 16. There is just not the ability to use what you have learned in competition other than juniors. Even Shannon Miller dispayed her disliking to the age limit issue more than even the new scoring system.

Of course, as of today the rule stands so it MUST be abided by. However, if the gold medals are stripped, I am quite sure it will cause the issue to be reevaluated. No harm in reevaluation is there. Not sure why you sound so offended or upset that there are people who don't agree that the age limit in this particular sport is fair. If you are the best, does it really matter (other than the rule is on the books now) how old you are? I participated in open (adult) wrestling competitions when I was in Jr High. I was 112lbs at the time but was good enough to win a good percentage of the matches when wrestling AAU. Obviously I wasn't "fully developed" at that point but was still able to compete and was not limited to age groups (though they did exist).

I am sorry you don't agree but that doesn't make my opinion "Null And Void". Sounds like a touchy subject for you but there are many who agree with me on this. It is just an opinion but one I would like to see looked at a bit more closely. Also I never said that the rule (not law) should be ignored.....just changed.

Have a nice day.

[danktat]

Just some food for thought...............I am not alone

He Kexin Age Debate-From Rumor to Media Firestorm



The accusations and rumors of the Chinese falsifying birthdates have produced an intense debate among the gymnastics world wide web ever since He Kexin starting winning world cup meets on uneven bars by skyscraper margins at the beginning of the year. However, it was just last week when the New York Times published an article on the subject matter, saying that Kexin, a favorite for uneven bars gold and Jiang Yuyuan, a top all-around gymnast, are indeed too young to rightfully compete in the 2008 Olympic Games. China, USA's top rival in the women's team final at the Olympics, apparently also had Yang Yun compete as an underage gymnast at the 2000 Olympics, where Yun won bronze with her team and individually on uneven bars. This has attracted the attention of the Karolyis, who commented in the NY Times article and stated that these girls are indeed underage. However, the Karolyis insist that there is nothing that can realistically be done to punish the Chinese or to prevent cases like this from happening in the future.

Falsifying ages of gymnasts is almost as synonymous with women's gymnastics as gymnasts falling off the beam. Cases of this have dated back to the 1980s, when the Soviet Union and Romania, the top two teams of the day, were later found out to have falsified countless gymnasts' birthdates to compete in world and/or Olympic competition. However, one of the most well-known and widely publicized age falsifying cases happened to a North Korean gymnast by the name of Kim Gwang Suk. Competing on the grand stage for the first time at the 1989 Worlds, Kim was competing as a "15" year-old when many believed she was 12 at the very oldest, likely more around 10. Kim's innovative uneven bars set was complete with two skills that would eventually bare her name. (straddled release move with a front flip into the bar, currently an F rated skill and a giant 1.5 to mixed grip, currently rated at a D) Kim's innovative bar set attracted attention at the '89 Worlds, but it would be two years later when she was rewarded with a gold medal and a perfect 10 at the 1991 Worlds for her daring display of athleticism on the bars. However, Kim was met with far more skepticism than congratulation after her Worlds win. Suk came to the 1992 Olympics as one of the favorites for uneven bar gold, all the while claiming to be 17 with missing front teeth and a tiny 4'4'' frame suggesting her age was anything but. Bela Karolyi thought Kim was underage, commenting famously "Her milk teeth are falling out, which is a good indication she's not even 11." The judges weren't convinced either, shutting Kim out of the medals when many believed her bars performance in event finals was worthy of at least a bronze.

Eventually, the North Korean team was banned from the 1993 Worlds, but Kim was allowed to keep her '91 World bars gold and all of the other medals she won. Now, in such a case where age falsification was proven, North Korea broke the rules and were caught. However, allowing Kim to keep all of her medals while technically an underage gymnast speaks volumes to the fact that while this age requirement is perhaps a good idea, it will ultimately never be followed by those with any chance to act otherwise (i.e. the Communist countries), because the consequences are meager at best. If the rule cannot be enforced, why is there such a rule in the first place? Several gymnasts admit afterwards (Goegan, Marinescu, and now Yang Yun being recent examples) that they were indeed underage to compete at the Olympics, in addition to other international meets such as the World Championships. Is there anything that can be done? You are doubtful to ever find either the FIG or IOC doing a #$!#$!#$!#$! thing in these kinds of scenarios, and things are unlikely to be any different this summer and beyond. The most we can realistically hope for is if the Chinese gymnasts' scores are lower than deserved.

The Olympic Games is where the best athletes from around the globe come together to compete for the glory of victory, and the pride of one's own sport and country. He Kexin is said by many to be the best bar worker in the world. So if she's the best, bloody let her compete without any of this age restriction nonsense. I can understand the FIG's worry for young athletes to compete in major events before they are mentally ready, but several cases have proven that young gymnasts can compete at an exceptionally high level and perform well to boot. Nadia Comaneci won the European AA title at the age of 13 and when on to score her seven perfect 10's at 14 at the 1976 Montreal Olympics. And of course we have the current case of United States figure skaters Mirai Nagasu, Rachael Flatt, and Caroline Zhang not being eligible to compete for the senior world championships when they are clearly USA's top 3 skaters at the moment, not the 3 ladies (Kimmie Meissner, Ashley Wagner, Bebe Liang) who we had to send to senior Worlds. Does that make sense? I think not. Nor does allowing the best bar worker in the world, who has hit EVERY bar set this year (including one in front of the Chinese president), be scrutinized for being too young when China will realize she is an asset to the team regardless of her age.

If China is willing to risk putting Kexin and Jiang Yuyaun (who was no slouch herself at last year's Worlds and has only gotten better at meets since then) on its Olympic team when there is a possibility of getting caught with "cheating," then these gymnasts have to be mentally and physically ready for the Games and have to be proven assets to the team. Those qualities are a requirement for any athlete wanting to compete in Beijing, and if the Chinese are gowing to all the trouble of falsifying birth dates to get these girls on the Olympic team, then that alone proves that their ability is most definitely worthy of competing at the Olympics. It should be up to those in charge to decide whether a gymnast is mentally and physically ready for the biggest competition of their life, not an age rule that is going to be broken anyway.

Ultimately, we are all different and the same is true for the athletes. One gymnast can peak at a very early age (which could prove to be the case of Kexin) and some athletes, Alicia Sacramone being an example, will end up peaking at a later stage of their career. And of course we have the inspirational Oksana Chusovitina looking better than ever at 33 and about to compete at her 5th Olympic Games. But to deny athletes who are early bloomers of competing at the biggest meet of their life is unfair in my opinion. I in no way support China's cheating, or anyone's cheating for that matter. However, I will be the first to say that He Kexin and Jiang Yuyuan are exceptional gymnasts that deserve to compete in the Olympic Games. They have the skills, polish, and they have proven that they are good competitors as well. In the case of another young Chinese gymnast who didn't make the team, Sui Lu, it was clearly too much too soon for her. However, the case differs per athlete, and some will reach their peak at a young age and some when they are older. So my final words are these: FIG, why keep a rule you cannot impose anyway, and why require several top gymnasts' dreams to be put in hold (or require cheating) when the Olympics is about the best in the world coming together to battle for the gold? I believe whole-heartedly that He Kexin and Jiang Yuyuan are too young, and I believe China is indeed cheating by letting them compete. But could you imagine an uneven bar final without He Kexin, an all-around final without Jiang Yuyuan, or a team final without either athlete playing major contributions to China's quest for gold? I certainly couldn't.

Found here:

Polished Gymnastics 101: Thoughts on Paul Hamm's Injury and He Kexin's Underage Status

[Revj0e]

wat ever happened to just enjoying somthing for wat iut is. Im not a huge fan of gymnastics...call it maleness...call it pure lack of intrest but i dont see the big problem. China won, Us won, other ppl won. Just get over it and enjoy the one thing that actually brings ppl together.