Feeding Question about my new boa

[AbsoluteApril]

I don't know if I should respond or not since the thread is done.

Originally Posted by razeraze

I know plenty of snake keepers with many reptiles but none over 5 years old.

That's a shame but there are plenty of us out there. I have a 19 year old BCi that I've kept for 10 years now. I also have three 10 yr olds that I've had for 6 years. One of which was a huge overfed monster, plus being an albino, I'm glad she's lived this long. She is now lean muscle but I always worry the powerfeeding from the prior owner has shortened her lifespan. Anyways, don't want to get in the fray, just saying hello, now you know more people that have had snakes longer than 5 years.
-Just another 'idiot' snake keeper with animals that seem to thrive in their tubs/racks and tanks

	Boa Constrictor Imperator

[razeraze]

Julius yes snakes take dead prey in the wild how ever they also have much more to give them exercise. A good food strike is great exercise and lets you know the snake is hungry. Taking an easy meal is more likely to get them obese. So why would I encourage them to always take prey as if it was dead and never waste any energy striking?

When I was young I though placid reptiles was what I wanted. Then I got my first salvator and realized I don't care how they act towards humans as long as they are not endangering themselves.

I guess I appreciate the reptile for being what it is (if I can work with it great if not I don't care) but if a reptile is no longer acting hungry then why would I feed it? That goes against everything I stand for. So because snakes will take easy deceased prey occasionally in the wild we should encourage this inactivity?

By the way my name is Tom I barely ever drink.

Absoluteapril I know many people with older reptiles (some with monitors that are 10 years old but never have reached sexual maturity) What I was getting at is I also know many keepers with a lot of reptiles but no reptiles over 5 years of age in their care. Quanity does not mean quality. I would take the advice of a person who has raised one monitor to 7 years of age which has reached sexual maturity and looks healthy than another person with a kingsnake breeding facility where they are always trading out reptiles for the newest morph.

[JuliusSqueezer]

I have had plenty live their lives out and die of old age...including some lizards. I bought an adult tokay gecko that was already quite large when I was a teenager and kept him for nearly 8 years before he had enough and rolled. I raised an iguana from a baby and it lived 14 years. I rescued/adopted a 10 year old iguana that lived another 5 years in my care before suffering from old age/renal kidney failure. I put her down. Snakes, I don't even know where to begin. Since most of my snake keeping consists of rescues, they come and go but I've kept many for many many years and still know where a whole lot of the old ones are that I adopted out. I recently adopted out all the big stuff to lighten my load. I'm trying to retire from keeping a large collection and I wanted to clear out space for more rescues so I found all my older boas new homes. My friend ,Johnathan has the last of my big adult boas. The oldest one is about 17. Currently my oldest snake is probably a wild caught adult amazon but no idea of her age. The oldest I can say for sure is 7 or 8 year old copperhead and then I have a couple of young boas around 6 years old. One I rescued as a baby and the other is from a litter I produced. He's about to go live with BW though because he needs another male for his breeding programs and I have no future plans to breed BCI other than possibly Hog Islands...and because we live so close, giving BW snakes isn't really like getting rid of them. I just don't have to feed them or clean up after them anymore nor do I have to worry that they aren't being cared for. We swap or dump on each other a lot.

	Boa Constrictor Imperator

[JuliusSqueezer]

Raze...constricting prey doesn't add much exercise. Certainly not enough to matter and besides that, what does it have to do with anything? Size of the meal doesn't change whether they constrict or not. Starving them before meals might and certainly will help keep them lean but they aren't staying lean because they constrict. They are staying lean because you aren't feeding them as often or as much or whatever. I don't promote over feeding or feeding too often but there's a healthy balance there somewhere you should find. Starving them between meals isn't it. I challenge you to show me data on the obesity of snakes that just swallow and those that constrict and find any difference. You are making crap up now. Stating it as fact when it's pure fiction or at the very best, conjecture is absurd.

[razeraze]

Then Julius I am sure you have been around long enough to see the multi pet keepers who are always down sizing or going through a new fad every week. This is what I hate about the community. You can get someone who has a collection of 20 snakes but is constantly replacing or trading them yet think they are so credible because they have a bunch of reptiles.

I have only been keeping reptiles for about 10 years ( I grew up with reptiles but was never really in charge of their care) and my oldest is 6 years old. I do not give away reptiles or take in more than I can handle. I have never downsized my collection nor housed an animal temporarily. Once they are in my care they are in it for the long run even if I have to go with out food for myself or furniture.

[Masahiko]

Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

We swap or dump on each other a lot.

Oh really?!


Brett, Do you just leave them on the doorstep of his house like he would do to you? :laugh:

[razeraze]

Again Julius I am looking for natural behavior. I just saw a study on humans saying we need to lean ourselves between feedings and then gorge because it forces the heart to slow down and burn more fuel efficiently, it also helps the brain work more efficiently and the muscles. It releases a hormone seldom used which could help keep organs younger looking and more rejuvenated. Just like us snakes evolved a certain way and to operate bodily functions in a specific way in a specific environment. Unless you can understand that I will never be able to explain to you why I try to mimic it.

[AbsoluteApril]

Originally Posted by razeraze

Absoluteapril I know many people with older reptiles (some with monitors that are 10 years old but never have reached sexual maturity) What I was getting at is I also know many keepers with a lot of reptiles but no reptiles over 5 years of age in their care.

??Right.. I didn't mean to just say they were old. I've only been keeping reptiles for 10 years and I was just saying that I've had most of my snakes for between 6-10 years. Maybe I am not in the majority but we are out there.

Years of observance of a specific species is wonderful and with many of the same species, it's amazing how different some of their personal likes/dislikes are regarding husbandry and interaction levels. I am always happy to learn more and believe we can always expand our knowledge of a subject.

[BWSmith]

Originally Posted by razeraze

I have never downsized my collection nor housed an animal temporarily. Once they are in my care they are in it for the long run even if I have to go with out food for myself or furniture.

That is nothing extraordinary. it just means that you have a few pet herps. And if that is how you wish to explore herpetoculture, then good for you. But there are many types of keepers and one with a few snakes does not necessarily outweigh the ones that use program animals, perform rescues, etc. There are a great many keepers who have anice balance of quantity and longevity. Fully one third of my collection I have had over 5 years and several over 10 (the number would be much higher had my boid collection not been devastated). But the reality is that someone with multiple specimens of one species can offer experiences as patterns because an even is repeated in multiple animals. You can only offer information on what your one specimen does which may or may not be indicative of the genus or species. Just because the people that you apparently hang out with rotate all their stock or are newbies, do not discount or trivialize those of us that have amassed a great deal of experience. To reword and restate one of your comments:
I would take the advice of a person who has raised MULTIPLE species of monitors to 7 years of age which has reached sexual maturity and looks healthy (not hard to find) than another person with a single pet monitor.

The world needs people who deal in quantity as well as quality. None of the Diamondbacks from the Rattlesnake Roundup would have survived had i not been willing to bring in over 30 at once. You have a very idealistic view of herpetoculture and herpetoculturists, unfortunately it does not translate well into the reality of the world we live in.

[razeraze]

Absolutely BW I agree. How ever you will find with monitors few have kept any alive over 5 years and more have them cycle in like crazy. So finding good information is incredibly difficult. Heck Like I told you in the PM one of the snake keepers I respect the most, is not doing great by monitor husbandry.

I understand it takes all kinds and I am no means an expert but when I quote someone who has decades of experience with caring and researching reptiles in his native area, people should be less inclined to jump down my throat. My lack of experience is why I depend on others and quote others. How ever I do have experience with these hot surface temperatures in 4 different species with same results. If the cage is set up properly you can provide a natural gradient and the choices of basking spots may very well help with digestion of large or frequent meals.