Feeding Question about my new boa

[razeraze]

Originally Posted by BWSmith

Of course you DO realize that evidence points that snakes detect heat better from above than below? It seems to take longer for snakes to realize that they are too hot when the heat source is emanating from below. This is likely why we saw (and still do see) cooked snakes on heat rocks when there is plenty of places to escape to cooler temperatures. Conversely, you will never see a cooked snake with faulty overhead heat when there is refuge. I would NEVER recommend a surface temperature of 119 degrees! That is just waiting for trouble to happen. One small malfunction and you have a cooked snake. Of course, luckily that snake seems to be avoiding the hot spot.

But other than feeding and temps, I don't see an issue with your husbandry

Again my snakes have plenty of room to escape the heat. If I kept them in small enclosures they would certainly cook.

[razeraze]

Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

Dang it Raze, I'm starting to feel bad from picking all this stuff apart but cmon...The basking spot should span the LENGTH of the reptile? Are you telling me that a 15 foot python should have a 15 foot basking area? Don't you think it would be OK if they curled up a little bit? I don't think a 30 plus foot long cage is going to be possible for most people. Even if we had 30 foot rooms, how's that thing coming in or out the door and around corners?

Yes they can curl up on it I guess I should have said the square footage should fit the entire reptile, sorry if I am not explaining every minute detail, I will try and be more specific.

[Texas Rattlesnake]

Raze, I know you like to rely on zoo keepers, vets, biologists, etc. for general advice and I am not saying that you are misguided in that approach BUT private keepers that maintain a large colony of a particular type of reptile can acquire a substantial bit of knowledge of the captive care requirements of those animals. Caresheets authored by these individuals are just a guide. Your high and low moments with your animals will ultimately allow you to fill in the blanks. There is no substitute for personal experience from years of working with your "pet" project.

[razeraze]

Originally Posted by Texas Rattlesnake

Raze, I know you like to rely on zoo keepers, vets, biologists, etc. for general advice and I am not saying that you are misguided in that approach BUT private keepers that maintain a large colony of a particular type of reptile can acquire a substantial bit of knowledge of the captive care requirements of those animals. Caresheets authored by these individuals are just a guide. Your high and low moments with your animals will ultimately allow you to fill in the blanks. There is no substitute for personal experience from years of working with your "pet" project.

You are absolutely right but I still like to cross reference and ask questions. When I ask why a snake regurgitates a large meal or dies from a large meal, I want to be lead in the right direction of an answer, not told to just feed smaller meals less frequently. That does not answer the question.

[JuliusSqueezer]

The point I was trying to get at...you can't apply general rules like this to "all reptiles" Most lizards don't curl up as well as snakes do. Legless lizards come close but most lizards have to stretch out and indeed do need a full length basking area. Turtles don't curl up well either. Gators...I guess they can curl their tail over to the side if they have to. Snakes and other reptiles = apples and oranges. Dietary needs differ too. Your constant cross referencing is not working.

Your reference to Baby may be flawed. No one ever heard of Baby till she was already over 20 feet and way overweight. Was she fed the same way her entire life or was she obtained as an adult and then stuffed to obesity? Within a few years of her fame, she died. Maybe she really was 27 years old. Maybe she wasn't. I don't believe everything I read on the internet. Even if she was, how many of those 27 years was she eating still born calves? Is it not possible that a giant healthy burm was overfed in her later years and that overfeeding finished her off? Maybe she would still be with us if only for another couple years if she had been fed a healthier diet. This is like when people point out how healthy looking some vegans look but fail to mention that up until 3 months ago, these people ate meat every day.

[razeraze]

Well I guess talking to the man who owned her does not count. I have spoken to Lou and I really have no reason to not believe him. I have seen old pictures and talked to people who knew him far longer than I have, but I guess they could all be lying to me.

I guess since snakes are so very different they could not possibly survive where lizards and crocodiles do, what was I thinking?

[JuliusSqueezer]

Originally Posted by razeraze

You are absolutely right but I still like to cross reference and ask questions. When I ask why a snake regurgitates a large meal or dies from a large meal, I want to be lead in the right direction of an answer, not told to just feed smaller meals less frequently. That does not answer the question.

See post number 20 on page 2. I didn't pull all that out of my backside. It's all the truth backed by plenty of research, admissions from big breeders that tried to powerfeed and killed their snakes, and personal observation and yes...mistakes. Mistakes aren't all bad if you learn something from them.

[Texas Rattlesnake]

Originally Posted by razeraze

You are absolutely right but I still like to cross reference and ask questions. When I ask why a snake regurgitates a large meal or dies from a large meal, I want to be lead in the right direction of an answer, not told to just feed smaller meals less frequently. That does not answer the question.

True, but sometimes you just have to figure it out on your own after consulting with whoever you deem competent on the subject. Here's a little story that some of you know.

When we started working with BCC, we kept them in large cages with belly heat and an overhead basking spot. I fed them similar to how I fed BCI. Our first group of three (all unrelated) perished from regurgitation syndrome. Why? Who knows? Looking back on it, we did so many things wrong. Were our temps too high, were the young animals stressed from a lack of privacy in the larger cages, did we feed too often or handle too soon after meals, were they intolerant of mouse fur? I just do not know. But, what I do know is that since we switched to smaller, more private cages with better control over temps and humidity, started feeding less often and smaller meals, handling less often, etc. etc., we have not lost a BCC. And over the past 4 years, our collection has grown considerably and we have a nice healthy breeding colony ready to go for the first time this year.

How did we get on track with these animals? Not by following the advice of our local reptile vet and author of the book "What's wrong with my Snake?" He's a great vet, but he has limited experience with BCC. In my opinion, his advice contributed to the death of our animals. Ultimately, it was the advice of experienced BCC keepers that helped us the most. Now, we follow our own approach with these animals based on our own observations.

By the way, our local zoo bought two emeralds from the same litter as ours. I'm pretty sure that our emeralds are healthy and the zoo's are either dead by now, or on their way out of this world. I suppose a zoo is only as good as its keepers.

Before you stereo type keepers like us as "nut jobs," uneducated, or just plain ole cheap when it comes to caging, know that many of us are just doing what we believe is best for our animals.

	Boa Constrictor Imperator

	Boa Constrictor Constrictor

[razeraze]

Powerfeeding kills, it still does not answer why. Is it meal size? Meal frequency? improper temps? A few herpetologist seem to think it is more temperature related than prey size or frequency, unless you are force feeding snakes.

Funny their answers make sense, why are they so hard to accept?

[razeraze]

Originally Posted by Texas Rattlesnake

True, but sometimes you just have to figure it out on your own after consulting with whoever you deem competent on the subject. Here's a little story that some of you know.

When we started working with BCC, we kept them in large cages with belly heat and an overhead basking spot. I fed them similar to how I fed BCI. Our first group of three (all unrelated) perished from regurgitation syndrome. Why? Who knows? Looking back on it, we did so many things wrong. Were our temps too high, were the young animals stressed from a lack of privacy in the larger cages, did we feed too often or handle too soon after meals, were they intolerant of mouse fur? I just do not know. But, what I do know is that since we switched to smaller, more private cages with better control over temps and humidity, started feeding less often and smaller meals, handling less often, etc. etc., we have not lost a BCC. And over the past 4 years, our collection has grown considerably and we have a nice healthy breeding colony ready to go for the first time this year.

How did we get on track with these animals? Not by following the advice of our local reptile vet and author of the book "What's wrong with my Snake?" He's a great vet, but he has limited experience with BCC. In my opinion, his advice contributed to the death of our animals. Ultimately, it was the advice of experienced BCC keepers that helped us the most. Now, we follow our own approach with these animals based on our own observations.

By the way, our local zoo bought two emeralds from the same litter as ours. I'm pretty sure that our emeralds are healthy and the zoo's are either dead by now, or on their way out of this world. I suppose a zoo is only as good as its keepers.

Before you stereo type keepers like us as "nut jobs," uneducated, or just plain ole cheap when it comes to caging, know that many of us are just doing what we believe is best for our animals.

Again though you are following advice and not answering questions. What was it, high temps, large cages? too much handling? This all needs to be addressed not just lumped together. Could higher temperatures and cooler temperatures and seclusion have helped? Monitors are very hands off for this very reason. Mine would throw up if she heard our bedroom door open. She did not die from regurgitating though she did it almost every 5 days. Eventually providing ambient noise helped mask our bedroom door opening and providing a large retreat pond helped her keep food down. She suddenly stopped regurgitating with out feeding less or smaller meals.

The answer is how to keep the stress down not how to change the diet.

	Boa Constrictor Imperator

	Boa Constrictor Constrictor