Feeding Question about my new boa

[JuliusSqueezer]

I've been in the reptile business a long long time. I have vended at many expos and have had over the years over a thousand members of these reptile sites partying, sleeping over etc in my house. Name names? Where to start? Why bother? It's not like lizard keeping is some great secret society. Who's your "cage guru? lol 150 surface temp will cook meat on a snake. If you have to have it that hot to warm the rest of the cage, there lies why your monitor setup isn't good for your snake Maybe you should build...oh I don't know...a snake cage?

[razeraze]

The whole cage is not 150F what don't you understand ambient 80-90F. Surface temps 76-80F 85-100F, 95-115F and finally the top shelf 130-150F

I can leave my hand on there with my frail un plated skin and not burn, unless I left it on the shelf for several hours. I have worked in the sun at 104F where surface temps were all over 130F and I did not die or have my skin break out in deep burns.

The monitor keeping community is very secluded, yes there are idiots at shows and new keepers but seldom any good keepers who have kept monitors alive for decades (not just breed them and replace the dead adults). Some of the keepers I know of with the oldest monitors in captivity are the same herpetologist and field researchers I talk to, coincidence? No! scientist who dedicate their lives to saving reptiles tend to know how to breed them and keep them alive.

[JuliusSqueezer]

I can leave my hand on there with my frail un plated skin and not burn, unless I left it on the shelf for several hours. I have worked in the sun at 104F where surface temps were all over 130F and I did not die or have my skin break out in deep burns.

Reptiles are cold blooded. Their body temperature matches their surroundings. They don't sweat, shiver or have a built in thermostat like we do to regulate body temperature. We do. Eventually our systems will fail and we will succumb to exposure from extreme temperatures. Reptiles bake or freeze much quicker than we do. Also, you weren't locked into this environment. You could go cool off any time you wanted to.

The monitor keeping community is very secluded, yes there are idiots at shows and new keepers but seldom any good keepers who have kept monitors alive for decades (not just breed them and replace the dead adults). Some of the keepers I know of with the oldest monitors in captivity are the same herpetologist and field researchers I talk to, coincidence? No! scientist who dedicate their lives to saving reptiles tend to know how to breed them and keep them alive.

well good for you. Congratulations for your ability to live vicariously through others. Again, your generalizations astound me. Have you ever been to a show I vend at? Do you know the people I know? I haven't called any of your top secret "herpetologist friends" idiots. Where do you get off passing judgment on people I know without even knowing who they are. For all YOU know, it's the same bloody people. You have put yourself on some bizarre pedestal and think of yourself as an elitist. So how dare anyone call you out for giving horrible advice when you stick your upturned nose into unfamiliar unexperienced territory. Your only defense is to try and pit snake people against lizard people? Please. If we are such scum and you and your leggedy thing lovers, go wallow around and play elitist with those guys. Or can you? Do they still call you "grasshoppah"? Is that's what this is about? Not getting enough praise there so you come here and get a little from the few that don't realize how full of fecal matter you are till you slip up and try to talk snake with a few adults?

[razeraze]

Actually if you have such vast experience in the world of varanids you would know how terribly hard it is to find good keepers. They are nothing like the snake community where every newbie with a menards rack can start a breeding facility. I am far from an elitist and am very interested in the gurus you claim to know, if you would like I will PM you and ask you so you do not have to put all their names out here. I find though I gain more knowledge from croc keepers and monitor keepers than the cash crop keepers ( BP, boas, leoapard geckos, BD and all the other caresheet cults out there).

Now yes reptiles don't sweat but you would be fool to think they can not retreat to a cool part of the enclosure. Reptiles are fully aware of their CTM and their PBT, this goes back to the "boil a frog" statement which is false.

	Ball Python

[pythonguy21]

this thread is getting heated. i think its served its purpose as to the advise part.

[BWSmith]

Originally Posted by pythonguy21

this thread is getting heated. i think its served its purpose as to the advise part.

This is true. I deal with enough animals leaving useless crap laying around. It is even worse when they THINK they are crapping gold. It is just sad to watch at this point.

[razeraze]

Tell me about it. amazing books from the 1950s address this, yet people seem to think it is new. That is what happens when little cults like this occur. I have talked to many breeders and only the good ones admit there are other ways to keep snakes alive and healthy with out shoving them in a rack and pre selecting their preferred temperatures.

[Texas Rattlesnake]

Told ya. Going around in circles. Round and round we go.

Raze I think it is great that you are allowed to express your opinions on this site, however misguided some feel they are. At that other site, when others ran the place, you would have been run off or banned. I like to hear all view points even if I do not agree with them.

Now, what I find distasteful is that you come across as a know it all, if you don't agree with me you are an idiot kind of guy. Why continue to throw stones at keepers like us that use racks and stacked cages with precise temps? It works. And works well. Can you make a point without constantly insulting snake keepers that use different methods than you? I think not.

I'd bet folks would be more inclined to listen to you if you weren't so insulting in your posts.

Ok, so Raze is the minority view. He's out there with his theories. Most of us reject them. But, let him talk. This is a good reptile discussion. I think there needs to be more of this around here. It is good for the site.

[ssjsmits]

Good for the site indeed. I've always liked bigger cages for my boids. Not so much tall (though I do have one that is 6ft) but more so longer. Up until recently I started keeping my smaller boas in rubbermaids and they thrive so well, incredibly well. Not to mention is very easy to get the desired surface temps you are looking for. My boas are kept in a room that ranges from 78-82 depending on the time of the year. And I get surface reading s anywhere from 78-91. Which, to me, is ideal (in my opinion of course). And it's easy to do this, with my larger cages, a little more time and effort is put in to maintaining the desired temp/humidity needed. They also seem more alert in tubs. Some of my snakes that are kept in open front cages don't seems as alert in these types of setups. Not that it's bad, but to me it seems the boas kept in these tubs generally have a more healthy, responsive persona. Which I enjoy. (Again, not to say anything bad about cages that have more viewing)
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I guess my point is that I enjoy large cages too, but I think raising them in tubs is an excellent, and easy, way to get-r-done.

[razeraze]

I think both ways are acceptable, I was confused as to why snakes can handle larger meals in the wild than in captivity, can eat more frequently in the wild than in captivity and do not regurgitate no matter how many chickens they eat when they break into a chicken farm. I was not happy with the idea it was magic so I asked. Guess what? the general consensus seems to be temperature. There are more temperature choices in the wild and therefore the animals can do what they need to to survive these large or frequent meals.

So when I come here and report this people jump down my neck, frankly I am tired of it and I am done.

If anyone is interested in this regurgitation or rotting meal phenomenon in the wild contact me by PM, if not good for you. I know who to go to for answers so I am done discussing this.

And for the record like I stated earlier boas have been on surfaces 122F the ambient temps were 101F and the internal body temperatures were 87- 92F they did not burn to a crisp or have any problems.

I am done.