Feeding Question about my new boa

[Texas Rattlesnake]

Originally Posted by razeraze

So when I come here and report this people jump down my neck, frankly I am tired of it and I am done..

........which explains the hostility in your posts. To the extent that I've jumped down your neck in the past, and I know I have......I'm sorry. You are dead on right about temp problems in captive environments contributing to, if not causing, regurgitation issues.

[razeraze]

Thank you Texas Rattlesnake, I do not make this stuff up and if herpetologists did not tell me some of these things I would not be sharing them here. If they came from a pet store clerk or a teenage part time zoo keeper, I would not be bringing it here.

I am sorry if I have been hostile towards anyone again it went south when I was asking Tammy for specifics on her observations to report back to the herpetologists, and all heck broke loose.

[BWSmith]

Originally Posted by razeraze

I was confused as to why snakes can handle larger meals in the wild than in captivity, can eat more frequently in the wild than in captivity and do not regurgitate no matter how many chickens they eat when they break into a chicken farm.

I have seen ZERO research to support that they eat larger meals, eat more frequently, and don't regurge. If you have VIABLE papers supporting these statements, I would love to see them. But I am not aware of any research that includes following around snakes to see what they eat, when, how often, and if it is regurgitated. Most research that I am aware of is based on specimens at the time of capture or through radio tracking which gives scattered data best since they are not "tracked" so much as randomly found. Other "data" regarding oversize meals usually comes from photos from unknown sources (and generally a dead snake). Take the infamous photo of the Afrock on the electric fence. We have no idea if the animal would have regurged if it had not died. This type of evidence about oversize prey is scattered at best.

So you ask "why snakes can handle larger meals in the wild than in captivity, can eat more frequently in the wild than in captivity and do not regurgitate"? I ask to show me that these circumstances even happen with regularity. Because I am not aware of any research published to support your position.

In actuality, we have probably seen more snakes pull off extraordinary feeding accomplishments in captivity than anyone ever will see in the wild. Perhaps we see regurgitation more in captivity because there is someone there to see it. The snake can't just crawl back into the jungle.

[razeraze]

Now I can speak for the larger species not for BCC but yes there are publishings about this and hopefully more to come.

Taxonomy, Life History, and Conservation of Giant Reptiles in West Kalimantan and was written by Mark Andre Auliya. is a great example, I am trying to get my hands on some other published material I was told to wait patiently and a new book may be coming out about this very subject.

A few of the retics trapped in Marks studies did regurgitate but odds are it was from being trapped and not from over eating. The majority of gut content were rodents so meals are frequent there is no shortage of rodents and if 10 foot snakes can get bellies full of them there are plenty to go around.

Another good example is the amount of aggravation it takes to get this Anaconda to throw up. Granted idiots mislabeled it but you get the point.

YouTube - Snake Eating then Throwing up a hippo!

Now if you would like to ask my sources I can give them to you but there are publishings out there and articles out there.

	Boa Constrictor Constrictor

[BWSmith]

OK, if there is so much information, then link us to some. As far as trapped studies, those cannot possibly definitively illustrate any of the three criteria. There could be some anecdotal information inferred from digestion rates to relate to feeding frequency.

A quote to support your stance from "Taxonomy, Life History, and Conservation of Giant Reptiles in West Kalimantan" would be nice if you are going to reference an obscure work.

I also fail to see any validity to the video you posted. We all know that snakes can take very large prey and will regurge if you muck with them. Nothing in that video is new information so I can't understand why you would even post it.

[razeraze]

BW. I have no doubt you are enjoying picking apart everything I have to say I can not sum up everything for you in Mark's book but there are plenty of evidence of large meals and frequent meals consumed. I have been trying to get a hold of him to get exact causes of death and again was told to wait.
17 rats, 4-6 chickens 160lb pigs you name it. It would be illogical for these animals to eat themselves to death odds are they are killed and the opened up.

Yes if you muck with a snake it will regurgitate but this is an excellent example of how capable they are to deal with large meals. Meals are too important just to waste by regurgitation so they must have a way to properly digest these meals. The best suggestion so far is a nice HOT basking spot.

Now seriously if you want sources and references PM me and stop dragging me back into this discussion.

[BWSmith]

If you are going to make the type of claims that you are, then you better be prepared to back them up. You have provided ZERO evidence or literature to support your claims. You don't need me to pick your arguments apart. There are no bones, tendons, or muscles to keep your arguments together. It is just skin with nothing underneath to support it.

You mentioned ONE reference that you can't even quote to support your claim. And an incredibly obscure reference at that so it hold so validity unless the reference is available (and I have a pretty extensive library).

Make claims that you can support with facts and evidence, otherwise you look like someone with a very small amount of knowledge trying to make themselves look respectable by quoting anonymous "scientists" and referencing obscure literature.

I truly am sorry if you are not used to dealing with people that can smell BS under a layer of flower pedals and have the ability to kick the pedals off to show the crap that lies underneath. But hey, get used to it, because we are everywhere.

The bottom line is that you make outrageous claims with no evidence to support other than a "scientist" told you so. Suck it up, get references, or don't make claims that can't be backed up. In this thread, you have provided BAD husbandry advice and backed it up with NOTHING. Just accept that you spoke out of turn about something you know little about and move on.

Have a sweet night.

[razeraze]

Again BW spoken like a true idiot, have you read Mark's book? Have you spoken to the people I have? Do you think because you write some venomous book you have all the answers? I told you I am investigating this, if I was as silly as you and only relied on what personal observations I have I can tell you the hot basking spots I provide cause no harm.
I have provided literature for surface temps in excess of 120F and have much more of that. these animals do use these surfaces and odds are it is to aid in these large meals.

Again you have yet to PM me, what is it you are so afraid of? I could give you names and sources of people who have given me references and are currently helping me.

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and give me one example these animals are scorched in their native environment or burned to a crisp by these surfaces. How about just regular observations by a keeper?
"I've taken a temp gun out and found Yellow Belly Racers basking at temps of 128F (I'm sure they can and do bask at higher temps. I've also seen Western Fence Lizards, bask at temps close to 135F at my old job site"

I can play the apologetic game as well and poke holes in your petty argument. By all means show me field research about thermal burns, or regurgitation.

[BWSmith]

Originally Posted by razeraze

Again BW spoken like a true idiot, have you read Mark's book?

Of course not, it is an obscure reference. I doubt that you can find 50 people who have read it in this country. But by all means, give a quote or anything.

I have provided literature for surface temps in excess of 120F and have much more of that

I have recorded surface temps of 120 in GA, but you would kill any native GA species if you exposed them to that for over 5 minutes. Your point is what?

Again you have yet to PM me, what is it you are so afraid of? I could give you names and sources of people who have given me references and are currently helping me.

Feel free to send me references to back up claims and I will research them. You can even email me directly at bwsmith@animalsouth.com. But in my experience, true professionals enjoy their works being distributed and discussed so I have no idea why you would not reference your sources public ally.

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and give me one example these animals are scorched in their native environment or burned to a crisp by these surfaces.

Why don't you work on your comprehension skills. I never said anything to that effect that would warrant defending. You have already proven your lack of comprehension by your ridiculous interpretation of the paper regarding boids taking bats as prey. You further demonstrate it by lack of comprehending who says what to you. This calls in to question the accuracy of your regurgitation of other peoples' observations.

"I've taken a temp gun out and found Yellow Belly Racers basking at temps of 128F (I'm sure they can and do bask at higher temps. I've also seen Western Fence Lizards, bask at temps close to 135F at my old job site"

An irrelevant quote with no source or reference. At least you are consistent.

I can play the apologetic game as well and poke holes in your petty argument. By all means show me field research about thermal burns, or regurgitation.

By all means, poke holes. But I will save you the trouble since I never mentioned field results on thermal burns or regurgitation. What thread are you even reading?

[BWSmith]

Amazon.com: Taxonomy, Life History and... $250? Yeah, not gonna happen. But a nice convenient reference since I doubt many people have it.