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Husbandry and Enclosure Need cage setup information?

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Old 05-16-2008, 11:30 PM
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Choosing the Right Type of Cage

Over the years, I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've looked at people's cage photos and cringed at the dimensions and overall layout. Granted, some of these are beautiful masterpieces showing great craftsmanship and no expenses spared...and usually, it's mostly to do with the species. Perhaps another species would be better suited for some of these cages. Here's what bugs me the most. Tall cages for animals that spend most of the time on the ground with overhead heating. Overhead heating cones out and leaves a much wider footprint of heat on the floor compared to where the heat originates from. The further the distance from light to floor, the more evenly distributed the heat is. However, these make great arboreal cages. Not so much because a snake in a cage really cares if it's 2 feet off the ground or 6...as long as they can perch, every species I have ever worked with seems to be quite content regardless of the actual height...In other words, is the cage sitting on the floor or high up on a table? They don't seem to care. Arrange perches so that you get a good gradient ideal for the species on the perches and adjust wattage, thermostat or dimmer as needed.

Some ground dwelling snakes like to climb too. This still does not mean you should build a 6 foot tall cage. They are kind of clumsy at times and the lower the branches you put in for climbing, the less distance they have to fall. Plus...No matter what they like or you think they like, it is paramount that they have a proper ground level gradient. Here's a little photo I drew in photoshop to illustrate a couple of examples. I haven't mentioned any actual species nor have I given any actual dimensions. It's up to you to know your animal's exact needs. So I left a lot open here for you to use your own noodle. The main thing I wanted to show was how the heat from overhead fixtures cones out and with that, you should be able to apply this to your own setups or fix any problems you may be experiencing. If I'm condescending or belittling because this is all too basic, I am sorry and maybe this isn't directed at you. But...There are a LOT of poorly put together setups. Hope this helps somebody.

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Old 05-17-2008, 01:36 AM
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Good read. I like how it shows the hottest (or most focused heat) in the middle and how it lowers as you move away from it. A lot of people don't know that.
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Old 05-17-2008, 03:44 PM
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I have yet to see a properly set up cage not utilized by a reptile despite height. The only reptiles that would probably make little use of it are the termite mound dwellers or burrowers.

If anyone is interested in books about enrichment and building environments not just enclosures, feel free to PM I am not going to start another fruitless argument.
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Old 05-17-2008, 06:18 PM
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While by no means comprehensive, it is a great illustration of one of the major components of enclosure design. Length vs height vs heat source type and location all come into play when designing an enclosure.
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Old 05-17-2008, 07:32 PM
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Another thing to consider is how the heat source emits heat and how heat rises. CHE tend to focus down like the images provided by Julius. However regular bulbs tend to heat outward more, so much of the heat never gets to the bottom of the cage, while the top air temperature can be extremely hot and dry.
Cage construction should always be focused around achieving the correct heat and humidity first, by any means possible.
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Old 05-17-2008, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razeraze View Post
Another thing to consider is how the heat source emits heat and how heat rises. CHE tend to focus down like the images provided by Julius. However regular bulbs tend to heat outward more, so much of the heat never gets to the bottom of the cage, while the top air temperature can be extremely hot and dry.
Cage construction should always be focused around achieving the correct heat and humidity first, by any means possible.
Exactly why High rise caging is a heating problem and another reason why UTH should be used under the overhead heat.

I never meant for it to be comprehensive. I didn't give dimensions or wattage or even get into bulb v/s che v/s heat panel. It was just meant to be a very basic concept to keep in mind while designing your cage for your particular animal.
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Old 05-17-2008, 09:48 PM
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My biggest dislike with under cage heating is it does not work at all in a tall (over 3')cage, it also can lead to hot spots making the entire base warm while the air temperature is still cool.

Again the important part is maintaining proper temps it does not matter what the cage looks like as long as you get the gradient you want. For me personally that is a gradient of 30-40 degrees difference between the cool retreat and the hottest basking site.
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Old 05-18-2008, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razeraze View Post
My biggest dislike with under cage heating is it does not work at all in a tall (over 3')cage, it also can lead to hot spots making the entire base warm while the air temperature is still cool.

Again the important part is maintaining proper temps it does not matter what the cage looks like as long as you get the gradient you want. For me personally that is a gradient of 30-40 degrees difference between the cool retreat and the hottest basking site.
What? None of that makes sense for any snake species I know of. First, there is a clear advantage for "belly heat" in aiding in digestion. Overhead heat helps but doesn't quite complete the job effectively. While it's true that there's no heat pads out in the woods for snakes to lay on, the earth rotates and so the sun is constantly changing positions providing various angles that the sun's rays will strike the surface that the snake chooses to bask on. Also, as the snake's body shades a particular area enough to cool it off, it can simply move a bit and get a new hot spot. If you can rig up a light that revolves around your cage and provide a basking area roughly the size of a small parking lot, you can get away with just overhead heat. Your personal dislike for UTH sounds more like just not wanting to rethink your choice of cage building materials. Use the right stuff and it works quite well. Your snake's health and well being is quite a bit more important than what you prefer.

UTH won't make the entire base hot if you don't cover the entire bottom of the cage with it. It's true, they don't heat tall cages well alone but if for some reason you are housing a ground dwelling snake in a tall cage, UTH will allow for a better basking area without having to use super hot bulbs, CHE or heat panels which when coming from overhead in a tall cage will evenly distribute the heat that makes it's way to the bottom, killing off any chance of a good gradient...so don't use tall cages for ground dwelling reptiles unless you can provide shelving which actually makes it more like multi leveled housing..so that each shelf or floor area becomes separate units and the animal has free range to choose what level to go to. There are plenty of ways to set this up effectively Some species do way better without lighted cages. Ball pythons in particular flourish 1000 times better with just belly heat and no overhead lighting or overhead heat of any kind. They don't really need much heat anyway. Same with most colubrids, pitvipers, rainbow boas...the list goes on. Know your species and what it requires. There is no one rule that covers all.

30 to 40 degrees gradient? If the hot side is 88, you have a cool side between 48 and 58? Remember that ambient temps are what is most important. If you are going just by surface temps...maybe but surface temps aren't what is generally referred to when people talk about gradients. Ambient temps really only need to range from 10 to 15 or 20 degrees gradient for most species. Please be careful how you word things like this because anyone reading might misinterpret and set up a 40 degree ambient gradient...if that's even possible without hooking up an A/C unit on one end and a space heater on the other.
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Old 05-19-2008, 04:56 PM
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The lights in my cage hit different surfaces at different angles providing each surface with a 5-10 degree different temperature than the next. The closer to the lights the warmer the surface. Everything in my cages are checked with a reliable temp gun all the time to be sure there is little fluctuation. Here is proof I do not need a heat pad.







Simply setting up a cage properly will give you many surface options at different gradients for the reptile to choose from. I will understand if you don't "get this". I will chalk it up to more "magic" monitor cage builders understand.
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Old 05-20-2008, 02:45 AM
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